Will Same-Sex Marriage be the Nail in the Coffin?

BlackChurchby Patricia L. Dickson7/9/15
It appears that the the Supreme Court’s 5-4 ruling on same-sex marriage may have forced the black church to finally admit to the Democratic Party’s stance on the fundamental beliefs of the Christian Church.

One would think that the black church would have gotten a clue when the Democrats booed when God was reintroduced into their party’s platform at their 2012 convention.  Even after they witnessed such disrespect for the God they claim to love, honor, and serve, black pastors and their congregations remained loyal to the Democratic Party.  Although many black Christians voiced their disapproval when President Obama claimed that his support for same-sex marriage had evolved, they continued to support the first black president and voted him back into office for a second term.[pullquote]Everything that the Democratic Party stands for is anti-God.  Every liberal policy from abortion to climate change to same-sex marriage is in opposition to biblical teachings.[/pullquote]

Now, after the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of same-sex marriage, all of a sudden some black pastors are questioning their relationship with the Democratic Party.  Commenting on the same-sex marriage ruling, members of the Mt. Hebron Missionary Baptist Church in Houston and their pastor, Rev. Max A. Miller, Jr., made some sobering comments in an article in the LA Times:

“If we really look at our values, they’re more conservative,” the Rev. Miller said. “Democrats treat us like a 2 a.m. phone call: They come by late in the election, they do nothing for the neighborhood, they give speeches and they sell us out.”

According to the article, members of the his congregation as well as members from other black churches voiced their regret for voting for President Obama and vowed to do a better job vetting candidates in the future:

Sylvia Sims, 59, the church office administrator, said Christian families had “made allowances” for relatives who had come out of the closet. They have accepted gay and lesbian politicians, including Houston’s three-term mayor, Annise Parker. Now Sims sees the ruling as a divine wake-up call.

“President Obama was wrong. Those people were wrong. But they were wrong because we let them be. We let a gay mayor in. And God said, ‘I’m going to show you because you let this in,’” Sims said. “God is sick and tired of us as Christians not standing up for what’s right.” Sims has been a straight-ticket Democratic voter, but said no more. Rhonda Miller agreed.

Fisher, a firewood salesman, noted that he had voted for Obama. “Ask me if I regret it,” said Fisher, still holding his Bible. “I do. If I could take it back, I would — on this issue alone. We expect him to rule this nation based on the beliefs in this book.” After the high court’s ruling, Fisher said he initially vowed never to vote for a Democrat again. Now he wants to be a more discerning voter.

Church members were also appalled at President Obama’s decision to light up the White House in rainbow colors after the Supreme Court’s ruling on the same day he gave the eulogy at the funeral for Rev. Clementa Pinckney, the pastor gunned down at the AME Church in Charleston, SC.  Soon after he praised the Supreme Court’s decision, President Obama stood on stage surrounded by black pastors, prayed, and then sang the song “Amazing Grace.”

“Singing ‘Amazing Grace’ after he led the charge — what a shame,” Fisher said. “The church is under siege; it’s just coming from different directions.”

While it is good to see the error of our ways, I cannot understand why any of these individuals is surprised by the actions of President Obama and the Democratic Party.  What did they think was going to happen once President Obama announced his support for same-sex marriage?

Some black pastors have voiced their opposition to the same-sex marriage ruling but have attempted to distance President Obama from the entire decision (although he came out immediately, voiced his enthusiasm, and lit up the White House in rainbow colors).  Everything that the Democratic Party stands for is anti-God.  Every liberal policy from abortion to climate change to same-sex marriage is in opposition to biblical teachings.  Either the black pastors and their congregants were not informed as to what their chosen political party stands for or they just closed their eyes, ears, and minds in denial.

Will we see the black church carry out a mass exodus from the Democratic Party?  While it would be a positive move for both the black community and the country, I am not going to hold my breath.


PatriciaDicksonPatricia Dickson blogs at Patricia’s Corner.
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27 Responses to Will Same-Sex Marriage be the Nail in the Coffin?

  1. Kung Fu Zu Kung Fu Zu says:

    Will we see the black church carry out a mass exodus from the Democratic Party? While it would be a positive move for both the black community and the country, I am not going to hold my breath

    Sadly, I believe you are correct. The Democratic Party knows exactly how to hold on to the black vote. First they buy off a large percentage of blacks with “stuff” including welfare, Medicaid, affirmative action, etc. But more importantly, they keep up a never-ending beat on racism. Grievance, as a political bludgeon, should never been underestimated. Much of the assault on our civilization is based in anti-white racism. It is an integral part of Leftist politics and has been for decades.

    As to the depth of Christian faith in the black community, let me see. I can hold a Bible in one hand and an Obamaphone in the other. Which is more important to me? Hmmm, I can’t text with the Bible and I only use it one day a week, but the Obamaphone is there for me always. Praise the Lord and order the take out pizza.

    • Brad Nelson Brad Nelson says:

      As to the depth of Christian faith in the black community, let me see. I can hold a Bible in one hand and an Obamaphone in the other. Which is more important to me?

      There’s no doubt there’s a strain of pseudo-Christianity in “black” churches that is called “Black Liberation Theology.” I suppose the white equivalent of that is the touchy-feely “Social Justice I’m-Okay/You’re-Okay Kumbaya” brand of pseudo-Christianity (which probably occurs in many “black” churches as well). In either case, it’s not about becoming a disciple of Christ.

      Now, not being a full believer myself (I feel the pull of full disclosure when discussing this topic), I can see where it’s convenient to go to one of these pseudo-churches and be flattered in the various beliefs you’ve already garnered from “out there” in the culture. This very much goes to the case of showing that much of religion has adopted the entertainment paradigm. When I semi-regularly went to church as a child, I was bored out of my mind, so I can understand the need to jazz things up.

      But, goodness gracious, how things have gotten out of hand. There is a point of view that churches operating outside of tax breaks might not be a bad thing. Again, I understand the attacks against Christianity that are going on and I’m not for surrendering. But much of the church is a corpse already, and I’m not talking about being analogous to the Body of Christ. Saving churches as they are now could be a somewhat hollow victory.

      I’ve intimately known two “black” churches and their ministers. One was a pseudo-Christian church, at best. It fulfilled a social function. And to the extent that churches do that, that’s not a bad thing. But if screaming at the top of your lungs is how to bring God into your life (and that was typical), then I’ll take a pass. The church that replaced it is more tradition. It’s “black” but many of the members are Asian, white, etc. I would say, offhand, there is a spirit there that doesn’t care all that much what color you are, which is a credit to the minister who I think is a great guy.

      I don’t envy any minister of integrity who has to go in front of their congregation and, instead of flattering them, tell them they need to work hard, to pray, to forgive, to let go of grievances, etc. But, by and large, this is the message of this pastor. And he talks to his congregants somewhat like the father that perhaps many of them never had. He also does more than just preach. He gets people started in a 9 to 5 job in construction contracting with the goal of splintering them off into their own businesses and providing the same service for others — jobs (with expectations) to people trying to walk the straight and narrow and who have perhaps never been tutored in the manly responsibilities.

      Is the spirit present in a bombastic church that declares “God damn America” as Obama’s church did? It seems unlikely. Is the local pastor that I describe a better example of what it is to be a Christian, whatever one’s color? I think undeniably he is.

      The corruption and confusion go deep. We have to search out those points of light. It’s not all good, as they say.

      • Kung Fu Zu Kung Fu Zu says:

        I don’t envy any minister of integrity who has to go in front of their congregation and, instead of flattering them, tell them they need to work hard, to pray, to forgive, to let go of grievances, etc. But, by and large, this is the message of this pastor. And he talks to his congregants somewhat like the father that perhaps many of them never had.

        I don’t want to get too esoteric, but I believe part of the problem in such churches may be the over dependence on pastors. I believe it is far more important to have good and moral elders and deacons than preachers. Elders are there to guide the congregation as a community, not just preach at them.

        Pauls says,

        A bishop, therefore, must be above reproach, husband of one wife, sober, temperate, courteous, hospitable, and a good teacher; he must not be given to drink or brawling, but be of a forbearing disposition, avoiding quarrels, and not avaricious. He must be one who manages his own household well and controls his children without losing his dignity, for if a man does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take charge of a congregation of God’s people? He should not be a recent convert; conceit might bring on him the devil’s punishment. He must moreover have a good reputation with the outside world, so that he may bot be exposed to scandal and be caught in the devil’s snare.

        With such men to lead a congregation, you can be sure that much which is now happening in the church would not be happening. Where are these men?

        • Brad Nelson Brad Nelson says:

          Where are these men?

          You really are a glutton for punishment. But thanks for throwing me that hanging breaking-ball.

          Those men are in the tattoo parlors, of course.

      • SkepticalCynic SkepticalCynic says:

        I have said it before. It is not God that is damning the U.S. It is the ignorant and foolish that are damning us. There are too many of them and not nearly enough of us that want an Honest to God country. So, so many are spiritually dead but are alive in the Devil.

        • Brad Nelson Brad Nelson says:

          In my assessment, Skeptic, what this New Man of the Left wants is:

          + No feeling of inferiority…and he will tamp down on the more talented or ambitious to achieve it. This is one of the prime motives behind the push for “equality.” It’s not that men wish to be raised up to those who are higher. They wish to pull down those who are higher in the attempt to equalize.

          + Sex without responsibility.

          + To forever remain a juvenile.

          + To have their faults and shortcomings blamed on someone else.

          + To think of themselves as a sort of Master Race of superior beings.

          + To worship nature.

          + To feel good all the time.

          + To mooch off other other people.

          + To bring down those who do not think the same.

          If I’ve missed a major point, remind me.

          • Timothy Lane says:

            Of course, that first part is the point of Vonnegut’s “Harrison Bergeron”. Oddly enough, Vonnegut was a leftist.

  2. Timothy Lane says:

    Nothing to disagree with here. There should have been a pastoral exodus in 2012, and one can only hope that they finally learned their lesson. We shall see if it matters in 2016 — but if it does, it could be crucial. One of the main ways the Demagogues rally the black vote is by sending buses to the churches , often for organized early voting and/or absentee ballots. Losing the churches would hit them hard. Even if it only happened once, it might prove a salutary lesson — particularly if they had reason to fear it could happen again. But will the black pastors realize how that benefits them and the members of their churches? Or will they hear the usual identity-politics fear-mongering, and go out and pull the tail of the donkey again?

  3. Rosalys says:

    “Democrats treat us like a 2 a.m. phone call: They come by late in the election, they do nothing for the neighborhood, they give speeches and they sell us out.”

    The Republican party has increasingly been treating conservative Christians the same way. Maybe Christians of all colors should ditch both parties and get together – like the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit would want us to. If you want a name I vote for the Fudge Ripples – chocolate and vanilla swirling around each other in delicious harmony! (It has always been my favorite flavor of ice cream.)

    • Timothy Lane says:

      At least the Republicans mostly don’t seek to force the Christians to sacrifice their beliefs. As long as the Demagogues satanically seek to force Christians to approve of their Libertinist cult, the GOP will be clearly superior. Most of them, anyway.

  4. Rosalys says:

    Listening to that Godless, Commie, Muslim sympathizer sing Amazing Grace made me want to puke!

    • Steve Lancaster says:

      Amazing Grace was written by John Newton who in his early years was captain of slave ships and a brutal slave owner. He began his road to redemption when he was a slave in Africa for a year. He later became one of the main opponents of slavery and was instrumental in England abolishing slavery. It took him seven years to gain ordination in the Church of England.

  5. Anniel says:

    Patricia, I was thinking about you the other day, and here you are. I wish more of my black friends would listen to your common sense Godliness as a way of life. Humanity in general needs a serious wake-up call.

    • Hi Anniel,
      It is good to know that you were thinking about me. So much insanity has happened in the past months in the political and social world (mainly in America) until I could not write because I was so angry. I really need to get control of my emotions when it comes to absurdities, lies and distortions. I literally get so full of righteous indignation until I sometimes cannot concentrate. One of my friends advised me not to write any articles until I calmed down because my anger might show in my writing.

      For instance, today I listened to this black pastor try to justify the church performing same-sex marriage as a dilemma while distancing Obama from the entire ruling, by quoting 1 Peter 2:13 13

      “Be submissive to every human institution and authority for the sake of the Lord, whether it be to the emperor as supreme,”

      I almost lost it! One of my colleagues suggested that I watch the movie idiocracy so that I could see where we are headed as a country. Lord I hope that we are not too far gone.

      • Timothy Lane says:

        I understand what you mean. After Janet Reno’s kidnapping of Elian Gonzalez in 2000, it took me 4 days to cool down enough to write about it (in a FOSFAX article I titled “Nacht und Nebel in Miami”).

      • Anniel says:

        Patricia,
        Some days we all need a sabbatical, but the other side never seems to stop. I’m glad yours was a badly-needed rest and not something worse.

        I’ve wondered how your London adventure is going. Do you still like it there? Let us know.

      • Brad Nelson Brad Nelson says:

        Patricia, Deana sent me this article, and it’s a worthy read all the way through: The Truth About the Homosexual Rights Movement. Doubtlessly, this is nothing you don’t already know. But more people should understand that the clean-cut “Ken & Bob monogamous, healthy, homosexual relationship” is just a stage prop, a myth, a bit of clever stagecraft.

        Hand to my heart, I don’t know that Christianity is true. But it is what it is. And there is a vast difference between the eternal truths as outlined in Christianity vs. the transient pop-culture Marxist-based fads that regularly whoosh through the culture now like a wrecking ball.

        Your black-church friends are either ignorant, foolish, or narcissistic. Their ignorance can be excused, for it’s been a full-court-press marketing campaign by the homosexual lobby to normalize what is inherently (as the article notes) “compensation for a compromised masculinity.” Yes, that’s right. Perhaps some of this is through no fault of their own. But homosexuality is the sign of something broken, not something to be “celebrated,” let alone something so important that it requires us to redefine (dumb-down) marriage.

        What does one do when one sees the world going crazy around them? This must have occurred to many Germans as they saw the Nazi Party take power. What does one do when disease and dysfunction are popularly called “good”? Do you scream? Well, I try to caution against that myself. Have a good rant once in a while, but realize — and doubly-so — just how important good moral and intellectual instruction is. Realize just how lost the human race truly is without being anchored to something deeper than transient pop psychology. We are a flexible species and we can flex toward all kinds of truly stupid ideas as many are doing now.

        That black pastor and his church likely are too far gone. I wonder if Paul’s words don’t come into play: “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.” A modern version of that is “Quit beating your head against the wall.”

        But I do think people such as you and Deana should be shining examples for others. And you can touch a lot of people in your writing. I would urge both of you to continue reading, continue your studies, and be voices of clarity in a culture gone mad. Just don’t expect to walk into a typical black (or white) church full of groupthink and suppose you can immediately change any minds.

        • Timothy Lane says:

          It’s always important to remember the “forgotten man” thesis in dealing with liberal arguments. A is concerned about D, so he talks it over with B, and they decide what C should do to solve the problem. My view is that A represents the outer-party liberals who genuinely believe in what they do, whereas B is the inner-party whose concern is power.

          In this case, D is those homosexuals who wanted to marry, and A is the liberals who genuinely like the idea. B is the militants who wanted to use the issue to destroy marriage and the leftist elites who didn’t much care either way, but used it for political advantage.

        • Kung Fu Zu Kung Fu Zu says:

          The article you linked to was very interesting. The author makes one particular observation which can be extrapolated to all interactions the Left has with those who disagree with them, but want to be “reasonable”.

          This is how it works. McNeill reinterprets the story of Sodom, claiming that it does not condemn homosexuality, but gang rape. Orthodox theologians respond, in a commendable but naïve attempt to rebut him, naïve because these theologians presume that McNeill believes his own arguments, and is writing as a scholar, not as a propagandist. McNeill ignores the arguments of his critics, dismissing their objections as based on homophobia, and repeats his original position. The orthodox respond again as if they were really dealing with a theologian. And back and forth for a few more rounds. Until finally McNeill or someone like him stands up and announces, “You know, this is getting us nowhere. We have our exegesis and our theology. You have yours. Why can’t we just agree to disagree?” That sounds so reasonable, so ecumenical. And if the orthodox buy into it, they have lost, because the gay rights apologists have earned a place at the table from which they will never be dislodged. Getting at the truth about Sodom and Gomorrah, or correctly parsing the sexual ethics of St. Thomas, was never really the issue. Winning admittance to Holy Communion was the issue.

          This is one reason I have decided to become more radical on this and other subjects. The Left is simply dishonest and has no compunction as regards lies and deceit.

          The thinking of most people has become so befuddled that they enter into discussions not realizing what they are discussing is nonsense, a perversion of life itself. The first thing to do is NOT ascribe any credibility to the jackals such as Father McNeill. Do not even try to enter into a conversation with them. All one can do is try to push them back into the filthy sticky tube from which they have oozed.

          • Timothy Lane says:

            One can honestly believe arguments that others see as nonsense, but all too often we are dealing with sheer sophistry — clever argument that the arguer doesn’t really believe. One way to respond to sophists is by bringing up Aristophanes’s The Clouds, which mocks the sophists of Cloud-Cuckoo-Land.

            • Kung Fu Zu Kung Fu Zu says:

              all too often we are dealing with sheer sophistry — clever argument that the arguer doesn’t really believe

              This is why one should be wary of those who use sophisticated arguments. They are generally overly complicated and nuanced as simple facts would reveal the true corruption behind their intentions.

  6. Tom Riehl Tom Riehl says:

    Excellent post and discussion, but I’m a bit confused about one bit at the end of Patricia’s post. She references the “black church”, which leads me to think of it in monolithic terms. This may well not be the intent, but it reminds me of the tendency of many politicians to think of black Americans as a cohesive unit, able to be led in unison to support the Democrat party.. The unraveling of such a mindset would be wonderful for all of us. So, maybe the churches with predominantly black membership will finally reject the pseudo-slavery of the Democrat party, not in unison, but each independently, with the news trumpeted each time. I remain hopeful because He is watching over us.

  7. I have for a long time been amazed that the black community supports Democrats since it has historically been the Democrats who perfected the art of racial bigotry and the Republicans that have worked to free blacks from it. Why haven’t the black churches known that?

    As for ministers telling congregations what they need to hear instead of what they want — I think both approaches miss the point. Paul told Timothy that his job as a pastor was to, “study to show thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.” Pastors need to be teaching the Bible, from the original languages, “line upon line, precept upon precept” whether or not the result pleases the congregation. But, easier said than done — if people don’t want to know what’s happening in that book, then…..

    • Timothy Lane says:

      It’s interesting that liberals will insist that the US be punished for its racist past — but never accept that the same thing is true of their Party, IngSoc aka the Democratic Party, which was always at the heart of that racism.

  8. Brad Nelson Brad Nelson says:

    Similar to the excellent article that Deane had brought to our attention (The Truth About the Homosexual Rights Movement), Tom Trinko has an article today at American Thinker: The Big Gay Lie.

    If you read the first article, you are excused from reading the second, although the second does have some relevant and useful statistics. Plus, I thought one of the commenters said something very frank and Brad-like about all this:

    Having sex in another persons feces is “contrary to nature” and a sign of devolution not evolution. Your sex life is a train wreck waiting to happen.

    Articles such as this won’t likely change the minds of those who have fallen for “marriage equality” because the narrative of The Nice Ken & Bob Monogamous and Long-Lasting Relationship serves several purposes:

    1) By believing this, it makes one stand out (inside a certain crowd) as a moral exemplar.
    2) It allows one to avoid making adult-like moral choices between good and bad.
    3) Given that homosexuals are not the only ones these days having sex — and lots of it — outside of proper man/woman marriage, being for “gay marriage” is a way to buy an Indulgence for one’s own heterosexual sins.

    If homosexual acts are indeed a form of broken masculinity, no one is doing anyone a real favor by making it easy for them to engage in an unhealthy, let alone unproductive, lifestyle. But to sort of “love the sinner and hate the sin” requires an adult mindset, and one with just a little more wisdom than you’ll find on the average bumper sticker. But wisdom, let alone adulthood, has mostly fallen out of favor as worthy attributes. And it requires one to admit that the whole “sexual revolution” thing has been a complete failure as far as advancing people’s happiness and health.

  9. Kung Fu Zu Kung Fu Zu says:

    We have heard much about the county clerk who would not issue marriage licenses to homo couples. What we didn’t hear, but knew, was that some of those demanding licenses were not from the lady’s county. This article shows at least one “couple” flew in from S.F. to push their agenda.

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/09/10/world/social-issues-world/san-francisco-gay-couple-wed-in-rowan-county-kentucky-in-jailed-clerks-absence/

    If anyone hasn’t figured this out, this is a war. The demonic deviants will not allow anyone not to worship at their many alters of perversion.

    • Timothy Lane says:

      I figured it was something like that. It was hardly credible that a county with about 20,000 people had so many homosexual couples eager to marry. Even if they had been from Rowan County, they could have gone to another county. This is why I pointed out several times elsewhere that it was clear that their goal wss imposing their will on Davis, not marriage.

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