Forums

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.





Pages: 1 [2] 3
Author Topic: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
Brad-
Nelson
Administrator
Posts: 1206
Permalink
Brad Nelson
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 09:19
Quote

Here is someone’s 7 Simple Steps to Eliminate School Shootings Overnight. These are immediate physical steps that could be taken. Whether turning schools into armed camps is a good idea, I don’t know. It seems to be surrendering to the core problem.

And the core problem is? Steve Soukup takes a shot at that in School Shootings and Nothingness:

The link between young men and violence has long been established and is about as close to proven as anything in the social sciences can be.  Young men are prone to violence.  And in every generation, a certain percentage of those young men are going to deviate from societal norms and become a rather serious threat to society and its stability.  As a general rule, over the last couple of decades, crime has dropped significantly in this country, and violent crime has dropped even more.  Crime waves that experts expected never materialized, and most of the nation’s biggest cities remained among the safest in the world.

At the same time, though, the incidence of young men turning to mass murder and committing heinous acts of violence nevertheless became a far more pronounced phenomenon, dominating the public consciousness and driving a political agenda.  Unfortunately, this paradox – dropping crime rates but increased frequency of high-profile shooting sprees – is explained at least in part by the fantasies that a handful of these young men create to compensate for the lack of real meaning or real human contact in their lives, to offset the nihilism that plagues their existence.

Psychologists who have studied violence in young men and especially young men’s willingness to forsake everything they know, everything they’ve been taught, and everything they might otherwise believe about right and wrong, say that there is a set of shared circumstances and “revelations” that link spree killers and self-radicalized terrorists.  Faced with emptiness of their own lives, isolated from many of their contemporaries, and desperately in search of something substantive to give their lives meaning and purpose, young men – and especially young men who find refuge on the internet and in social media – tend to create fantasy lives for themselves, alternate realities in which they not only find the meaning and purpose they crave, but do so in heroic fashion.

Basically he says nihilism is the problem. And I don’t doubt that atheism is at the root of a lot of this. But consider that these kids are not shooting up banks, bus stops, parades, or even Boston marathons. They are targeting schools, and usually the ones they’ve attended.

I would take a look at what these schools have become. I think the kids all around have become vicious. How many of these school shooters were giving payback at ill treatment and it’s not about nihilistic fantasies of power? And if some alienated yute does have nihilistic fantasies, with violence as the fulcrum, why take it out on fellows of his own age? Shouldn't he have a natural sympathy with those in much the same predicament? Shouldn’t he rather walk into a nursing home and blast up old people?

I do not expect “journalists” to investigate what went on in the schools. That would be “blaming the victim.” But I wouldn’t be at all surprised that the victims were partially to blame. How much actual alienation, instead of befriending, occurred? Conservatives are quick (and rightfully so) not to turn the discussion of morals into a discussion of means (guns). We should also not turn our backs on the possibility that public schools are a wasteland and that kids of all stripes have taken on a higher level of viciousness.

We do see how nutty, angry, and intolerant yutes are now at the college level. And haven’t the school officials been screaming about problems with bullying? Either their sensitivities have been ramped up (which I always thought had been the case…think of the kids getting in trouble for carving a Pop Tart into the shape of a gun) or this “bullying” is the outward sign of a viciousness that today’s libtard teachers (predominantly women) cannot come to grips with.

Guest

Posts: 1
Permalink
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 09:59
Quote

So your point is that they're only interested in targeting their schools, not mass murder in general. That would explain why they don't attack malls or parks. In fact, a blogger responding to my comment on the first article pointed out that if the schools are hardened, the shooters can target buses or playgrounds.

Leigh-
Bravo
Contributor
Posts: 1
Permalink
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 10:09
Quote

We all know until there is some consensus from both sides, the issue of school shootings will never be solved. We must all take this issue seriously and step away from politics in order to save our children. Here are some steps we should take immediately and over a short period of time to help save our children:

* To solve the immediate threat of gun violence in schools, we need to talk about metal detectors and armed security guards.

*The next step is for parents to take responsibility for their students and seek help when they know they have issues at school.

*Counselors need to be cut loose from busy work and allowed to do their job…counsel.

*There should be laws to stop the sale of AK-15’s to anyone under the age of 21. And although I know this is not popular, I do believe that a possible ban on AK-15’s should be reenacted in order to begin the negotiations.

*Loop holes at gun shows need to be closed and anyone buying a weapon, anywhere, including online, must have a background check.

*Law enforcement needs to step up to the plate and actually do their job instead of spying on all Americans and trying to take down a presidency and listen to those on the front lines when there is suspicious activity.

*The gun laws on the books MUST be enforced and parents who refuse to lock up their weapons should be held accountable for their children’s access to them.

* Programs need to be set up in schools to identify kids at risk. A great example of this is in the following article. It begins in elementary school. Take a look: https://www.rd.com/advice/parenting/stop-bullying-strategy/

Anyone out there with me?

Brad-
Nelson
Administrator
Posts: 1206
Permalink
Brad Nelson
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 10:22
Quote

the immediate threat of gun violence in schools

I agree with the “immediate threat” aspect, Leigh. We can, and should, talk about root causes. But right now we need a fire extinguisher, not an inspection by the fire marshall.

I think the Ostrich effect is highly relevant. Who wants to stick their neck out? If you do, and if the kid you see as a trouble child is black, or hispanic, or anything but not-white, you’re going to get grief for it. It’s much easier just to let the shootings take place and then blame guns (and Republicans) for it afterward.

In my opinion, most people don’t know what to do with a problem child even if he (and most likely it is a he) is pointed out. So let’s just drug the little buggers….and then not care or notice if these drugs are exacerbating the mental problems.

I berated that clown (on the first page of this thread) for his non-specific call for “courage.” And yet we do need a fair amount of courage to meet this problem. We need courage to point out where the problems are, perhaps starting at the number of single-parent families. Sorry, but boys need a father. All boys have a propensity toward violence and therefore all boys have to have civilization figuratively beaten into them.

But let’s not forget what little monster the girls could be turning into. I suspect that a lot of vicious bullying by girls is behind this male rage.

*Counselors need to be cut loose from busy work and allowed to do their job…counsel.

And perhaps take their head out of the sand. One frequently hears after-the-fact regarding a school shooter than everyone knew that someone was on the road to that but did nothing. Counselors need to be proactive and parents (and school officials) need to back them up. I think a huge part of the problem is narcissistic parents who become enraged if it's suggested that Little Johnny may have a problem.

Timothy-
Lane
Moderator
Posts: 930
Permalink
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 10:23
Quote

There's the AK-47 and the AR-15. Both are only sold in semiautomatic versions, and are very handy (they're much easier for women and older folks to handle because of the lack of a recoil and the smaller size). Banning their sale to young adults may be worthwhile, though note that a soldier aged 19 may be handling automatic versions of those weapons -- or machine guns or bazookas.

There is no "gun show loophole" -- the laws are the same there as elsewhere. Basically, gun sales by dealers always require background checks, those by non-dealers don't. I would agree that this is a potential problem at gun shows (though some, I'm told, require background checks for all sales already). The problem is that it's hard to do that in ordinary private sales -- and a great nuisance in dealing with family friends. Theoretically, if you loan your gun to a spouse or friend, you would need to do a background check each way when there really should be none either way. If you know the other person is a criminal, you would be subject to charges.

But most of your ideas are good ones. Not easily enforced, though. The problem is that adults need to step up -- and how many of the relevant people are truly adult?

Brad-
Nelson
Administrator
Posts: 1206
Permalink
Brad Nelson
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 11:36
Quote

Root causes are difficult. Certainly crime has always been with us. And good parents as well as bad parents produce criminals.

And it would seem that many of these school shooters come from two-parent families, sometimes very well off families. The Columbine shooters did. This current one had adoptive parents, but at least he had two parents.

But liberalism runs deep. I started seeing a trait amongst the fathers of children over 30 years ago. They tended to be very liberally permissive, the reigning paradigm being “Any physical force is tantamount to abuse.” And so we have raised a whole lot of unruly kids who sometimes have little or no respect for limits. Somewhere between beating the hell out of them and total weeny permissiveness is a happy medium.

My brother had been a foster parent to a troubled young boy. (Long story.) He was also inclined to being soft on discipline, although the hands of foster parents are somewhat tied. Many parents actually seem afraid of their children.

So I think it’s a fair bet that there are a lot of fathers of young boys and teenagers who perhaps do little better than single-mothers. They are not there for needed discipline for all intents and purposes.

And I really am not a huge fan of the idea that video games and TV cause violence by glorifying it. It’s hard for perhaps women to understand, but men love these kind of games. They are vary arguably an outlet for hostility.

What would be interesting is if a journalist or doctor (not a quack, either case) would take a real, unvarnished, un-PC look at the school shooters of the last 40 years and try to find a common denominator. Perhaps this has been done and that study or book has been ignored because the facts are uncomplimentary to current progressive fashions.

Timothy-
Lane
Moderator
Posts: 930
Permalink
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 11:48
Quote

There may be no common denominator. There may be a series of factors, and if enough of them are involved then you have a monster instead of a child. Genetics may also be a factor (cf. The Bad Seed, which involves a psychopathic young girl who kills at least one person in the course of the book).

Brad-
Nelson
Administrator
Posts: 1206
Permalink
Brad Nelson
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 11:57
Quote

There may indeed be no common denominator, only an escalation of young men’s inherenet propensity for violence. And then we might ask what is contributing to the escalation, or the up-arc, and what is not contributing to the suppression, or the down-arc.

Speaking of seeds, our own Glenn Fairman wrote about the subject in America's Bad Seed.

Timothy-
Lane
Moderator
Posts: 930
Permalink
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 12:17
Quote

Yes, The Bad Seed went from book to play to movie (which was based on the play). I'm only familiar with the novel, and it's been a long time since I read it. But I checked it out on wikipedia, and it turns out the girl killed 3 people and a dog (and there may always have been others -- and since at the end of the book there's no one left who knows what she really is, probably more in the future). The reason the movie reversed the ending was the Hays Code: No criminal would profit by his crime in the end. (This didn't require having the mother live and recover from her coma, but I guess they figured only one needed to die.)

Kung Fu Zu
Moderator
Posts: 452
Permalink
Kung Fu Zu
Post Re: Juvenile Viciousness Is Here to Stay
on: February 18, 2018, 12:49
Quote

As we discussed some years ago on the pages of ST, something like 2-3 percent of the population would be considered, by testing, to by psychopathic and/or sociopathic. That means we have millions of congenital Little Monsters from the get go. Thank God, not all of these people manifest their pathology by mass murder. Given this, and the way modern American society has developed with the combination of no discipline and mantra that "everyone is special", I am actually surprised we have not had more of such slaughters. They are, in fact, fairly easy to pull off. Can anyone imagine the rage which someone might feel upon approaching adulthood to realize that one really isn't so special and have this fact reinforced on a daily basis by one's peers? How explosive would that rage be if experienced by one who is just a little mentally unsound?

That being said, there is something special about the USA in this regard. When I lived in Switzerland, every male had to actively serve in the Swiss military for some period of time and then in the reserve for another 10 years, or more, depending upon one's rank. All these men were issued personal weapons to take home and maintain. I personally saw some of these sitting in people's closets, not in gun safes. I believe this is the weapon I saw. Note it can by used as a machine gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_510#/media/File:F_ass_57.JPG

Surprisingly, the Swiss didn't go around slaughtering each other on a regular basis. In fact, I know of only one mass murder in recent Swiss history, and the man who committed it was definitely mental. But to commit his crime he used pistols, I believe shot guns and a military weapon. It was a case of were the authorities knew the man was off, but they did nothing about it. At least, the man did not go after school children. He had specific government officials in mind and wanted to punish them for wrongs, imagined or not, which he had suffered.

Pages: 1 [2] 3
Mingle Forum by cartpauj
Version: 1.0.34 ; Page loaded in: 0.212 seconds.