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Author Topic: FilmStruck
Brad-
Nelson
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Brad Nelson
Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 12:50
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For one thing, I find it hard to believe that a Japanese officer would shoot a schoolteacher for refusing to take down the American flag over his school. Why do you think Japanese officers had those samurai swords?

Yikes. You’re probably right. Nasty regimes always have a fetish about saving bullets.

Surely I’ve seen No Man is and Island. But offhand I can’t say for sure. I’m going to have to look that one up. I see that it stars Captain Pike. Oh, I gotta see this one then.

Speaking of a Commie on Back to Bataan, the trivia section at IMDB for Flying Leathernecks says:

This movie is often considered merely another assignment of Nicholas Ray's at RKO for Howard Hughes to prove his political and professional alliance during the Red Scare. A blatant pro-war movie that Hughes cared about and Ray did not, Ray disagreed with the film's politics and was said to get Robert Ryan to intentionally overact. Ryan and Ray, who were leftist liberals, constantly fought against John Wayne and Jay C. Flippen, who were conservatives and supported the Blacklist.

It just goes to show you how nutty liberals are, and I mean the person who wrote this trivia bit. I didn’t find Flying Leathernecks to be a blatant pro-war film. It was, at the very least, a blatant pro-air-power film and certainly a blatant lets-fight-the-invading-Japanese film. But there was a lot of sadness and death in this one. And there were brave men such as Wayne (as well as the character played by Ryan). I guess unless you’re a limp-wristed weasel who bows down to dictators then you’re “blatant pro-war.” As for the politics of blacklisting and such, this is one of the difficult areas because there were people actually trying to sell out our country to the Russians.

Of course, now the f-tard liberals find it shocking that Russians could be trying to influence us. I side with black-listing. I know it’s not popular. And such things can be carried too far. But black-listing in the form of denying all Muslims into Europe, for example, is over-do. Having an open society is not a suicide pact. We must have some type of immune system. The problem is now that the subversives are now primarily in charge. And they represent a huge part of the population. Everyone has been well propagandized into the propaganda of “McCarthyism” despite the fact that McCarthy was right. To my mind, we could use more blacklisting and McCarthyism. Perhaps for now we must do this via espousing people to not give their money to subversive organizations such as the NFL.

They Were Expendable is the pick of the lot. The PT boats in the film were cool. And I think history shows they were effective. The boats aren’t all that big but they are loaded down by these huge missile tubes, four to a boat. They’d just run into the teeth of everything a convoy could throw at them and then skedaddle away (if they survived) after firing their torpedoes. I believe In Harms Way had a good PT boat sequence.

I wonder if a sub could ram a Q-ship and survive, though.

I wonder if the captain would even try. But in the heat of the battle, with the other ship crippled and not sunk, Wayne (or Bond) rammed the Jap ship with the sub. The problem with ramming is that even if you don’t sink there’s no guarantee that you can disengage from the ship. Everything worked right in this one though and they made it back to Pearl at half speed. And there was a commendation, not a court martial, so I guess he did the right thing.

Bond (the captain) was all shot up when he gave the dive order. It was actually a pretty good and believable sequence. At the inquiry, Wayne gave the details and explained that he searched the area for the captain as long as he dared. This brings back memories of one of the great Athenian battles talked about in a book we both reviewed, Lords of the Sea. I forget the exact battle, but one Athenian captain or admiral was executed for not trying hard enough to save the sailors who were in the water. He claimed (and it seems to me he was not lying) that the raging storm made it impossible.

A couple of these movies are about the fall of Bataan and Corregidor, but don’t go in much detail. I would have loved to have seen more of the frantic detail of ushering MacArthur and other top brass into the PT boats and making their way to safety.

Brad-
Nelson
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Brad Nelson
Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 12:58
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Thanks for that link, Mr. Kung. It's amazing that it was based on a true story...including the ramming.

Timothy-
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Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 13:14
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My view on the blacklisting is simple: If it was wrong to blacklist the Hollywood for subtly propagandizing on behalf of Stalinism, then it was wrong to blacklist Leni Riefenstahl for her past involvement with Josef Goebbels. And hers never ended.

The wikipedia article KFZ linked to mentioned that Gilmore rammed a Japanese destroyer, which damaged it and crippled his own sub. It was after that that he ordered them to crash dive while he was on deck. They searched for him after finally surfacing, but the sea was empty and they never found him.

I thought US PT-boats had 2 torpedo tubes. The larger German S-boats did have 4 tubes.

The battle that led to the execution of the winning Athenian commanders was Arginusae. They had also pursued the Peloponnesian fleet, leaving some of their damaged ships to rescue the crews. Their punishment was at least partly because the lost crewmen never received proper funeral rights and would thus their spirits would be forced to wander the world because they couldn't pay the ferryman Charon and cross over into Hades. The next major battle, after they had no more effective commanders, was Aegospotami, and that was that. (There were 10 commanders, but 2 probably guessed what was coming and didn't return to Athens. The others were all tried and executed.)

Kung Fu Zu
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Kung Fu Zu
Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 13:54
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The battle that led to the execution of the winning Athenian commanders was Arginusae. They had also pursued the Peloponnesian fleet, leaving some of their damaged ships to rescue the crews. Their punishment was at least partly because the lost crewmen never received proper funeral rights and would thus their spirits would be forced to wander the world because they couldn't pay the ferryman Charon and cross over into Hades. The next major battle, after they had no more effective commanders, was Aegospotami, and that was that. (There were 10 commanders, but 2 probably guessed what was coming and didn't return to Athens. The others were all tried and executed.)

This is what one can get with mob rule which is sometimes called democracy. That's why our founding fathers set up a republic.

Kung Fu Zu
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Kung Fu Zu
Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 14:00
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The final iteration of the PT boat was an amazing floating weapons platform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Torpedo_Boat_PT-658

Have a look at the list of armaments such a boat carried. A lot more than was available to Lt. Cmdr. McHale.

Timothy-
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Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 14:44
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That was an interesting array of guns. I'm surprised at how many guns of similar caliber (both 37mm and 40mm, for example), which seems to me a bad idea. (Think of getting the 37mm and 40mm ammunition confused and you'll see why I have my doubts.) But it does seem to have been, in effect, both a gunboat and a torpedo boat. Good idea. I once read that Soviet Admiral Gorshkov (later overall fleet commander) placed T-34 turrets on MTBs for the same reason.

Brad-
Nelson
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Brad Nelson
Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 15:57
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I thought US PT-boats had 2 torpedo tubes.

The trivia section for the movie at IMDB says that the real-life Motor Torpedo Boat Squadron 3 in the Philippines was initially equipped with six 77-foot Elco PT boats. These were the type that evacuated MacArthur.

In the film they used two 80-foot Elco and four 78-f00t Huckins PT boats. You can clearly see the 4 torpedo tubes on both these boats. Looking at the photos of the 77’ Elco, it would appear that they could be equipped with two torpedoes and some depth chargers (or that might be extra gasoline barrels) or four torpedoes. I’m guessing that’s not where the would store gasoline but you never know.

Brad-
Nelson
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Brad Nelson
Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 16:04
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PT 658 is very nice, and it would appear to have a more sophisticated launching system. Do you suppose it throws the torpedoes over the side sideways and they go from there? With the Elco 80’ you can clearly see that the tubes (with the torpedoes inside) are angled out from the boat and are launched (presumably) by air pressure.

From that photo of the PT-658, it would appear that the torpedoes are not encased inside a launching tube as with the Elcos. They have a nose cover, yes, but I wonder how they launch them.

Brad-
Nelson
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Brad Nelson
Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 16:14
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It interesting that the Wiki article regarding PT-658 said it wore the paint scheme of Camouflage Measure 31-20L. Another Wiki article notes some of the other measures used, including an interesting fake bow wave on the fifth photo from the top (on the USS Northampton). It even has a color chart at the bottom. I would love to read a book on the history of camouflage. Anyone know if such a thing exists?

Timothy-
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Post Re: FilmStruck
on: July 19, 2018, 16:54
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One of my books (and I may have brought it with me, in which case it would be in a box in the truck of our car) was a study of all naval ships from World War II. My recollection was that the Germans had some large S-boats with 4 tubes -- but the main one (according to wikipdia) only had 2. Its gun armament (not given in the book) was 20mm and 37mm AA guns. It did have a great range due to its diesel engines. Even earlier American PT boats had 4 tubes (I checked PT 109, correctly figuring it would be listed).

Something would have to start the motors, or a torpedo would just sink near the ship. Depth charges initially were just thrown over the stern. Later they had K- and Y-launchers.

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