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Author Topic: King Leopolds Ghost
Brad-
Nelson
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Brad Nelson
Post Re: King Leopolds Ghost
on: July 18, 2018, 08:38
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Mr. Kung, this Wiki article states:

By the end of 1891, the force had 60 officers, 60 non-commissioned officers, and 3,500 black soldiers. Friendly tribes and militias were often used to help exert control over the outermost parts of the Free State.

That's more than 40 whites, but not much more. But certainly perhaps the small numbers is one reason they were so thoroughly brutal. This force apparently made harsh examples everywhere it went. And there were, of course, many rebellions. Not many of the rebellions were successful, if any.

You perhaps see this author as making an unfair attack on Western Civilization. I don't know. I certainly won't assume that just one books solves the issue. But I'll take it at face value for now.

Timothy-
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Post Re: King Leopolds Ghost
on: July 18, 2018, 08:56
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A lot depended on whether or not there was a rebellion. The German genocide against the Hereros occurred during a rebellion. There were also many other African rebellions, usually with dire consequences for the natives. This didn't always prevent them from serving as troops for the colonial power. Less than a decade after the Maji Maji rebellion in southern German East Africa, those same natives were the heart of Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck's army, which resisted the British until the end of the war (in fact, till after -- it took 3 days for them to find out it was over while on another successful raid in Northern Rhodesia). This was partly because the Germans put in reforms that greatly improved conditions for the natives there.

Kung Fu Zu
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Kung Fu Zu
Post Re: King Leopolds Ghost
on: July 18, 2018, 09:14
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You perhaps see this author as making an unfair attack on Western Civilization. I don't know. I certainly won't assume that just one books solves the issue.

I have become very leery of modern "history" books. Like the History Channel, they too often slant, omit and change facts. When I hear claims like those made by this author my bull-shit antenna comes out.

As with the news, I like to check several different sources before deciding what would seem to be the most logical and honest account of any occurrence. And in this case, while I have no doubt that 60 Europeans with the support of 3,600 native troops could/did wreak a lot of havoc, I have serious doubts that they could be responsible for the millions of deaths attributed to them. Particularly given the huge size of the Congo. Just the logistics would be overwhelming.

A similar accusation is hurled in our faces today regarding the death of "millions" of natives in the Caribbean as well as North and South America through the disease Europeans brought to the new world. The natives may have died, but it wasn't biological warfare on the part of the Europeans. The Europeans didn't go around infecting themselves so they could pass on a disease to the natives.

I recall having an argument with some idiot on line about this subject and he finally had to resort to an instance where some British commander gave some Indian contaminated blankets so they would catch the pox. To begin with, that was the only documented instance he could come up with. And if the Brit actually did do this, it did not appear to be very successful. The modern left's motto is, "don't confuse me with the facts, I know what I think."

Timothy-
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Post Re: King Leopolds Ghost
on: July 18, 2018, 10:34
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Europeans didn't know much about contagion until the Pasteur/Lister era (even Semmelweiss didn't know why his methods worked, he just observed that they did). They also didn't realize how vulnerable American Indians were to European diseases. Cortez didn't know how devastating a single Spaniard with smallpox would be to the population of Mexico, and may even have disliked it (fewer indios to work and pay taxes).

The British reportedly did supply blankets from smallpox-infected patients to Pontiac and his Indian rebels in 1763, but I'm not sure how much harm that did, or even how much the British actually expected. I would also wonder how they expected to get blankets to a bunch of rebels in the wild. And in the end the British gave Pontiac what he wanted, closing the trans-Appalachian region to the colonists. Too bad for Pontiac that they failed to enforce the law. Some minor difficulty with the colonials starting in 1775, I believe.

Interestingly, the original version of "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts" was from a pro-Nixon GOP congressman, Earl Landgrebe of Indiana (my former congressman when I was at Purdue, in fact). This was in 1974, not a good year for a Republican to make a fool of himself. He lost to a Purdue history professor, Floyd Fithian (I never had him, but a friend did and considered him a liberal). Today this typifies the modern leftist.

Kung Fu Zu
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Kung Fu Zu
Post Re: King Leopolds Ghost
on: July 18, 2018, 12:50
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The British reportedly did supply blankets from smallpox-infected patients to Pontiac and his Indian rebels in 1763, but I'm not sure how much harm that did, or even how much the British actually expected.

That was the case which I discussed with the guy. As I recall, the British officer responsible wrote to someone about this. He was no friend of Indians. But this is not surprising as the Indians did not fight like gentlemen.

I also wonder how many colonialists would be happy carrying around diseased blankets. Of course, it was not uncommon in those days for some to survive smallpox. Perhaps he advertised for such fellows with a hook like,

"Wanted: Young men seeking adventure, needed to carry cargo to the Western Wilderness. Perks include, free travel, beautiful scenery, fresh air and interaction with the native peoples. All applicants must be survivors of smallpox. Pox scars obligatory."

As I recall, there were only a few blankets as they had to be carried there by man, horse or mule. And there was no general outbreak of smallpox. I believe, a few people might have contracted the disease, but the number was not large. So much for wiping out the Red Man with biological warfare.

Timothy-
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Post Re: King Leopolds Ghost
on: July 18, 2018, 13:01
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Yes, I figured that's what you were talking about.

Incidentally, I read wikipedia's article on German East Africa for some relevant information. By 1914, the colony had about 7.5 million people, including perhaps 10,000 Europeans (the majority not even German). There were fewer than a thousand plantations. The Schutztruppe had about 2500, just under 10% German, and the askaris were very well paid -- twice what the British got. They even got pensions, though the Third Reich led to a suspension in those payments (especially during the war). West Germany resumed them in 1954, including the back pay, for the remaining survivors. Hardly any had any evidence of their service, naturally, but someone came up with the bright idea of handing each a broom and telling him to perform the manual of arms. They all remembered and got their pay.

I also checked, and found that Heinrich Göring was the first official governor of German Southwest Africa, and thus long gone by the time of the Herero-Nama genocide. Pity. It would have been so interesting if that had been one of Hermann's childhood lessons.

Brad-
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Brad Nelson
Post Re: King Leopolds Ghost
on: July 19, 2018, 08:56
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Timothy, the African Queen, one of my favorite movies, is set in 1914 at the start of WWI.

Rose (Hepburn) is a Methodist missionary in German East Africa. She and Charlie (Bogart) escape the Krauts with a precarious voyage down the Ulanga River (and past a German fort) on said Queen, but not without encountering more deadly Germans in a connecting lake — the gunboat, the Königin Luise.

Thankfully they at least never ran into Heinrich Ernst Göring, nor his son Hermann. Maybe a sequel could be made of that movie where they do so. But they're not making Bogies or Hepburns anymore. I used this line on some libtard from California recently. "Well, what about George Clooney?" Yes, what about George Clooney? Actually, I think he's terrific in three or four movies. But, generally speaking, what we call "stars" today are a pale reflection of those from the golden era of Hollywood. Now all we have is Hollyweird (which is not to say, besides Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne, and a few others, that the old Hollywood stars were bastions of decency).

Timothy-
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Post Re: King Leopolds Ghost
on: July 19, 2018, 10:48
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The African Queen is based (no doubt very loosely) on the efforts by a British naval officer (Geoffrey Spicer-Simpson) to rid Lake Tanganyika of the German ships that controlled it. He had 2 small boats, which he named Mimi and Toutou, plus the advantage of surprise. He captured a German armed steamer (which he named Fifi -- I guess he liked French girls, and after all boats and ships ARE referred to as "she"), and then sank a second one. The last one basically kept the struggle even (i.e., not much happened) until the Belgians took its port, which led the Germans to scuttle it.

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